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These are in two different classes entirely. The NAD is considered an entry level player whereas the Meridian is a higher end CDP (before we get into the stratosphere of course). I can afford either, but given my other components, is it worth splurging on the Meridian? Will I hear $2500 worth of difference? Come to think of it, the Meridian costs almost as much as my Amp + Speakers... that must be crazy. What ratio of my budget should go into the source system?

• Now even though NAD is cheaper, it seems to have HDCD and Meridian doesn't. Do I need HDCD? List consensus is NO!!!

• DIY Straits agreed:
  it could be that your amp/speaker combo are showing the deficiencies in your source... With your suggested budget of $2000, do not scrimp on the source; GIGO - garbage in garbage out. I have heard good results from the CDM1 NT and to change your speakers for the sake of looks is a mistake. To source for budget CD players like the NAD541, Rotel RA02 and Marantz CD4000/6000 would be a parallel upgrade at the most since your system will exposed their flaws i.e. cheap parts. DIYer's suggestion included in list below

OK here's some names that have been suggested:

	HDCD	Price
Arcam DIVA CD 92 (Ambient Acoustics)	no
Meridian 507	no	$2700
Marantz SA 1 (KEC)
Marantz SA 17 (KEC)
Marantz CD17 MkIII (KEC)		$980
Myryad MCD200 (KEC)	no	$1620
Quad 99CD-P (KEC)	no	$2380
Rega Planet 2000 (CD Acoustics)	no	$1490
Rotel RCD-991AE	yes
Shanling	yes
Sony SCD 555ES (Sony stores)	sacd

Latest:

News Flash: My CDP doesn't suck!
I tested the YBA's Audio Refinement Complete against my Pioneer DVD player over the course of a week. The Pioneer won. although the YBA was more detailed, the wound was two dimensional. The sound stage was flat and there was no emotion. The pioneer produced a much more vivid image. What this tells me is that my player rates: it may not be the best thing out there but it is not the worst and so changing the cdp might not give my system the best bang for the buck.

A/B #2: My Pioneer against Rega Planet
I went to CD acoustics to check out the Rega Planet and I had the very good luck that they were using my DVD-919 as source for their home theatre set-up. So I could a/b my player against the Rega right in the store. Once again I think the Pioneer showed itself to be a respectable machine. Still, the Rega won hands down. It was much more detailed and had stronger, tighter bass... something I am looking for. I enjoyed the Rega and it certainly remains a contender. [Tested on Spk: Vandersteen IC Floorstanders $1980, Amp: Mira Rega (integrated) $1590 - 60W, Belden ICs, Rega Speaker Cables $3.ft]

Marantz & Rotel
At KEC I hear the Rotel 1070 against the Marantz CD17 MkIII, the Myryad MCD2000 and the Quad 99CD-P. I always think it's interesting to hear what the sales guy says about the stuff he figures you're not interested in or can't sell you. The guy showing me the cdps told me that the QUAD high end speakers suck... that except for the cheap bookshelf models, QUAD speakers weren't worth your time - only their cdps were (of course as I was in the market for a cdp!).

Anyway, on to the test. The Rotel and the Marantz sounded horrible. Flat and lifeless. The Marantz was quite a bit better than the Rotel but not worth forking out $980. Then came the Myryad and it was the first evidence we were listening to music. It was detailed, clear, present. The QUAD cdp sounded similar to the Myryad. It had a marginally improved handling of bass and detail but certainly not $800 worth of improvement. Basically I wasn't happy with the listening session because if the highly regarded Marantz CD17 MkIII sounded so lousy, it seemed there had to be something wrong. I'm not going to write it off until I hear it in another setting. [Tested on Spk: Mission 780SE bookshelves $795, Amp: Myryad MI120 $1440, Chord Chorus ICs $399/p, Cable: QED XT400 $38/m]

 

Although the input range from the amp suggests the systems are compatible, some guy told me that because both B&W and Arcam both aim for a smooth sound, the combo is overboard. I need more power to drive the B&W's... Is this really my problem or are there other tweaks I should try first? The same guy suggested a speaker switch as the amp was well regarded... said Castle, KEF,

Comment from brat: Some reviews mention that the bass for the B&W CDM NT1 roll off below 100hz. So that may be the reason you are not getting any bass. That could explain a LOT actually... I surfed around but can't find those reviews but a fair number of more general comments that suggest the 1NT's need good power, source and recordings: so basically if everything else is perfect the speakers won't disappoint!

There is another theory that may need to be explored and that is that there is a problem with my speaker stands...

To check out

• Sonus Faber - If we are just buying on looks this would be the runaway winner. Thanks to ultramagnus I now know I can check these out at Audio Jas, 161 Lavender Street, #01-10. Tel 67550646, look for Jay or Steven. Ken got his from High End Research.
• Loth X - that's DIYer Straits suggestions (6th Ave.)
• Another name popped up: Vienna Acoustics Mozart and Beethoven models - can check them out at Music By Design...
• Ultramagnus checked these out before going for his SF Concertinos..
  SF concertino: about $1300
  SF concerto: about $2000
  Aurum cantus Leisure II SE : about $1600
  Lothx Amaze: about $1000
  Well I'm already down for checking out SF & LothX so why not Aurum too to compare... Apparently a lesson in classical music awaits me at LothX (per DIYer Straits) which I'm always up for.
• There are a number of votes in favour of floor standers over bookshelves... Jagx said to compare Dynaudio Audience 52 bookshelf and a Dynaudio Audience 82 to prove the point. It does stand to reason that bookshelves can't do the same job on low frequency... but all those concerto fans say no!
• SF also does floorstanders "Grand Piano". They're much cheaper out here in Asia (S$3.5) than what you'd pay in the US.

Notes about my CDM 1NT's from the web: Long burn-in time. Require good amps, cables and stands to achieve its best. Bass is moderate, but fairly good for bookshelf speakers. Requires good electronics to shine. with certain types of music, such as Rock, Dance, House, Percussion etc. it doesn't have the bass depth that is needed When I moved them from one side of the wall to another, the sound improved immediately. These speakers take a long time to break in, a long time! One must use caution NOT to get CDM 1 out too far from back wall or bass goes to sh.. need Pure class A amp, good cables the NT's do miss the really low freq. Unforgiving with badly recorded material They reveal the shortcomings of, A) the source components, and B) the recording itself. B&W speakers seem to thrive on power What this all seems to amount to is that, for starters, my amp isn't strong enough. Does that mean I need a new amp? Can I use my integrated amp as a pre-amp and slot in a power amp to move the power up a notch? What will this do to my electricity bill!!!

Jul 19: My visit to Sonus Faber
I found a few free hours on Saturday so I went in to High end to check out the SFs. I was thinking mostly about the Grand Pianos given that I'm looking to improve the bass performance of my system.

The set-up at High End SUCKs! You audition your speakers in something like a very cluttered closet. There is little space, the room is full of stuff, their is no soundproofing between the two listening rooms, they've got the TV going next to the front desk... it's TERRIBLE! Do the Sonus Faber people know how their products are marketed?! They are clearly relying on the fact that the products are so excellent they sell themselves.

After some mucking about (their cdp wasn't working properly - producing a high pitched sound on the right wide), I got set up with a proper listening session. I just used Beethoven's 5th throughout as it has enough complexity and bass demands to test what I'm looking for. I started with the Concertos ($2,200). Talk about beautiful looking speakers. It was quite enjoyable and had wonderful detail. When the grand pianos ($3,800) came on, the sound stage deepened and of course the bass handling improved... but I felt that some of the detail in the mid-range and treble was lost. It wasn't major but enough that it was clearly noticeable on back to back a/b testing.

Then I decided to put the two against a reference point of a third speaker: the $12,000 Cremonas. Despite the cramped surroundings, this was as close to a religious experience as I'd come that day. It was pure enjoyment. The detail returned with interest and the base was clear and tight. I felt the music. It made me miss my own real live music with the SSO. [Tested with Nagra PL-L pre-amp; Passlab 150.5 Power Amp @150W/channel; Audio Research CD3 ICs; Purist Audio Design AK cables]

I should not that because of the initial faffing about, I got to hear the concertos powered by both a 50W amp and a 150M amp. They sounded WAY better with the higher powered amp. It was like night and day. It made me realise how the technical specs can be deceiving when it comes to speaker matching. Technically speaking, the concertos are suited to a 50W amp... but to kick ass, something more powerful may be needed.

Note: The prices quoted were not discussed so these were their offers. They also proposed giving me $800 for my B&W speakers as partial payment for the Grand Pianos. I think I can do much better than this but for know I'm not sold on anything.

Jul 19: Living Voice
Ken had recommended listening to the lavardin/Living Voice combo. So after High End I made a b-line to Soundscape on the second floor of Adelphi. Unfortunately as the whole excursion was unplanned, I didn't have my CDs with me and Soundscape only has vinyl. No matter, this was just a recce.

I listed to the Living Voice obx-r ($10,500). What amazing detail. It was interesting listening to vinyl as I'd never really done this before. The analogue distinction came through and I can see why it appeals to so many people. What I don't like about vinyl is its poor handling of silence. As I think of silence as being the canvas for sound, it is quite important to me; thus I'm a long way from becoming a convert.

I listened to a variety of pieces: Carmen orchestral movements, Tracy Chapman, Mussorgsky. The latter was closest in character to the Beethoven I'd been listening to earlier at High End.

The experience wasn't quite as "religious" as what I'd experienced with the Cremonas but I think the actual choice of music may be partly to blame. The detail of the living voice definitely surpassed the high end set-up. In fact it was so detailed I was wondering if it would cause listening fatigue in the long run. The sales guy said that with my Arcam amp that would be less of an issue. More evidence that my amp should be reconsidered...?

What was wonderful about these babies was that they were playing straight out of a 30W amp (Lavardin IS Reference) through an 8TC Kimber bi-wire. That they could sing like that on so little power was very impressive. What wasn't impressive however was the external crossovers that looked like a couple of monoblocks (pic here). I'm not thrilled with the idea of having lots of kit cluttering the floor. I want acoustic ZEN. Well as I understand it, only the obx-r's have external crossovers. The cheaper models do not... and I still think I'd have to be a bit nuts to get ten thousands dollar speakers. Although if truth be told, I am nuts... but so far not proven to be silly (which according to some is a character flaw).

I appreciate the fact that the Soundscape space has actually been optimised for listening. They sell a bunch of acoustic room tweak items so it's no surprise. The downside is, of course, that I could never reproduce such an excellent listening area.

Living voice has 3 ranges priced at $10.5K, $7K and $3.8K respectively. I was told that the other two handle bass identically and that the difference is in the detail.

I will definitely be back with my amp.

Postscript: Apparently I was spotted at Soundscape my some echolofter who didn't identify himself but did identify ME to the Soundscape salesman. The latter followed up by checking out my page and giving me quite a few good suggestions. So who is the mystery forummer playing private-eye?

Speaker Contenders Price   Sonus Faber:     Concertos Grand Piano Cremonas $2.2K $3.8K $12.0K bookshelf floorstander floorstander Living Voice     Auditorium Avatar OBX-R $3.8K $7.0K $10.5K floorstander floorstander floorstander Soliloquy     Dynaudio     LothX

 

STATUS: I BOUGHT MY RACK!!!
click here for the winner

Short listed:
My recce (26 June) to Adelphi had me narrowed down to 2 models.

• no name steel/MDF wood (about 3.5cm thick) 4 tier shelves from Alpha Audio - $550
• Dr Labs at Audionote - would get a couple of pieces of acrylic to go with this -   $250 +$30/piece acrylic

The Dr Labs is an exact copy of the Finite Element Spider shelves. Although I think Dr Labs is the far better deal from the two options above, I have to admit that it's rather exposed for my living room. I do have some sensitivity to decor. The other shelves are a bit high end for my system but the aesthetics do have a lot of value given the kind of living space I have. The colour combos of the two are identical - wood + aluminum. But the no-name brand does a better job of hiding wires and doesn't take up so much space.

I didn't get but in case you're interested:

• KEC sells a variety of shelves:
  • 4 tier granite + steel $399;
  • 4 tier MDF+steel $199;
  • 4 tier pine+glass $350
• Precision Audio:
  • sale on a 4 tier steel+glass $280 (usual $480).
  • They also do custom made steel shelves
• KEF has
  • gorgeous set of acrylic + aluminum 3 tiered shelves for $1200 (ouch!);
  • their 4 tier steel+glass shelves are $320
• Electrades (Adelphi 4th floor) has a number of models from $400 up. Some modular systems. No rack investigation complete without checking these guys out.
• Hutter Racktime available from Soundscape HiFi are quite nice looking: Spruce & Aluminum with wood veneer; modular; $1655 or $459/base + $404/shelf. At this price range you should be looking at the eye candy section below.
• The Solidsteel rack looks not bad. Seen pic of it here.

From the Gods
There were a few other models worth mentioning at the VERY high end which are pure eye candy:

Rack of Steel available at Audionote
$1800

Particular Tandem: About S$8K new
... but some guy on echoloft selling it 2nd hand for S$3K

Finite Element's Pagode Signature
available at Music By Design
$1850

This is an exquisite piece of German engineering and aesthetics. As the equipment can't breath on this thing, it's quite possibly a strong case of form over function.

A number of people who's opinions I respect have told me that power conditioners are just snake oil and that their use will probably cause a loss of dynamics.

BI-WIRING

Pros and Cons (read the cons!!!)

If you can't understand that diagram then let me refer you to the original which I can't take credit for and is a must see for all ASCII nostalgists...

You see that?! Someone actually took the time to type this whole thing out and mail it to me!! After all the spam mail, hoaxes and just darn rude lack of netiquette... I mean just when you were thinking the net went wrong somewhere and please get this monkey off my back cus it's like crack cocaine and I know it's bad for me but I can't help myself, just when you were wondering what the ten commandments would have looked like if Moses had known Bill Gates... well this sort of thing just restores your faith in the online community!!! Newbies get over to echoloft now!

BI-AMPING

Some interesting comments on 4TC and bi-wiring: Triple

Kimber is clearly the value for money choice. In the "money is no matter" list, the names Nordost Red Dawn Speaker Cable, DH Labs, Zcable Live (interconnects), and Analysis Plus have come up... there are obviously more. Those are just the first I've come across.

Major complaint with PBJs seems that they're too bright. People complaining don't seem to give details on their set-up though and those happy often have 4TC cables. As matching interconnects and speaker cables is considered a must, this could explain many of the complaints. I can't believe how I'm starting to sound...